Polite Political Discourse Episode 3: Religion in Politics
Mar 21, 2018
Join hosts Dakota Coddington and Tyler Overbey in Polite Political Discourse, as they engage in intellectual, bipartisan, conversation. The two intend on attempting to understand each others political views, while-be-it the complete opposites of each other.
Owen Horne ◊ Mar 22, 2018 at 12:14 pm
wish these things had a transcript.
Joey Babcock ◊ Mar 22, 2018 at 1:37 pm
welcome ladies and gentlemen my name is
Tyler Overby and I am here with my host
Dakota Coddington and we are here to
talk about yet another political topic
today what will you decide to talk about
is a little bit controversial but I
think it’s something that we can all
handle we decided that we wanted to
discuss religions interplay into
politics more just address kind of in a
broad way all of the ways that people
incorporate political ideas are not
political ideas religious ideals and
beliefs into their political thinking
and we’re gonna dress the pros and cons
of both because as I’m sure some of you
know as you can see what the code is all
of Dakota’s I love my church t-shirts
anywhere it’s to school all the time
which we know and love we know that he’s
very involved with his church we know
that he’s very involved with religion as
with his whole family who have met all
of them they’re very wonderful people
and we this kind of this idea came out
of a conversation that him and I had
previously where I just wanted to voice
some of my concerns and some of my
questions because I myself am of faith
but I have found myself questioning it
throughout the years and having some
some pretty good thought processes about
it that I think everyone should you know
it’s healthy to think about but what I’d
like to start off with which is my
starting opinion for this conversation
is I don’t really think which is this
tends to be more of a conservative thing
to happen I don’t really think it’s a
good idea to transfer over the sayings
and teachings of the Bible into
everything that gets played into
politics and that can be large and that
can be small so that can be literal
where like with abortion and how
everyone especially the Catholic Church
is very against it and they that’s
because it’s a very specific detailed
ruling about the way that they’re
supposed to be and then there’s also on
the other side of the spectrum there’s a
lot lighter versions of that which is
just be good to your neighbor be good
people
ironically some of the the people that
live by those ideals tend to do the
opposite in terms of our economy and
businesses because they like to screw
over other people and take their money
at least that’s the way that I’ve seen
it throughout the years but to get back
to my main point it was more of a
question I wanted to ask Dakota and an
argument in the sense of is it okay to
just blindly follow exactly what is said
in the Bible and exactly what it said
you know when we don’t really know
everything for sure we don’t know
everything for absolute all we know is
that these are that the disciples are
human in their human people that years
and years ago wrote this book and all
humans have done some great things and
they’ve done some some great terror
thing horrible things as well and I’m
not saying I’m not trying to make any
sort of argument that the Bible isn’t
real or religion is fake or it shouldn’t
be valued I think it’s some one of the
most important things and finding
empathy and true love with in the world
and with people in it
but my big thing is I just don’t like
how people with that are very religious
what they seem to do a lot in politics
is they seem to pick and choose what
they want to believe and what they want
to follow in the Bible and of course I
mean you look at it from an adolescent
standpoint and then you see like oh like
not having sex before marriage it’s a
big thing that people all break the
rules on that all the time and they
think oh well I can still be a good
Christian and still do that I mean
there’s plenty of people I’m not saying
that any of those people are bad we’re
all guilty we’ve all done our share of
things but you need to be cognizant of
the fact that you’re still not following
that rule and people seem to pick and
choose and the biggest thing that I want
to say yet again and then I’ll stop for
a little bit and let Dakota talk is I
just wanted to get out everything right
away is my biggest thing is the
contention about gay marriage in this
country is something that I just think
and or transgender people the
controversy of the belief in that people
adults struggling to comprehend the
these new things to them and honestly
like I think it’s just horrible that
there’s so much hatred with but I
understand that with misunderstanding
common doubts and fears and that makes a
lot of sense but at the same time that
comes from the Book of Leviticus and in
the Book of Leviticus they say that a
marriage is between a man and the woman
but the thing about that Book of
Leviticus which I have taken the time to
read they also have like 75 other things
and that’s not an exaggeration that and
you can look it up that they tell you
not to do and there are very simple
everyday things that people blatantly
disregard all the time
I can think of them for example you
can’t eat certain types of meat you
can’t touch unclean animals you can’t if
you fail to testify about doing
something that you’ve done wrong and you
failed to tell anybody about it then
that’s considered a sin you can’t eat
certain types of fat like I said there’s
just a bunch of other things you can’t
tear your clothes you can’t drink
alcohol and holy places you can’t and
these are all very simple things and
it’s just it’s weird I mean it’s weird
that people do that because that’s a
very cut and dry example of a section of
the Bible where things are disregarded
but it seems that that’s a lot of how
racism and hatred is started and stirred
in our country it’s from people picking
and choosing those good morals from the
Bible because they believe that if
they’re following some of them they’re
following all of them that makes them a
holy good person and that’s why all
those holy good southern folk in the
South in the early 50s and 60s were so
hate hateful towards our
african-american brothers was because
they believed that they were doing God’s
righteous work and that they were the
holy good people and it was through
something that God would have never have
ever wanted he had to have any sort of
hatred towards his kit children in my
opinion which I always thought was the
big contradiction with religious people
anyway with spreading enforcing or
spreading love but enforcing hey you
gotta make everyone feel loved and
include
and that’s what it was always the number
one thing in the Bible was love thy
neighbor and yet homosexuals transgender
any member of the LGBT community as well
as still in this day African Americans
and Hispanic Asian Native American folk
a lot of people in groups are still
receiving all sorts of hatred and
disrespect in the belief that these
people are less than us and that is not
a what was said in the Bible and I don’t
know how all of these conservative
politicians got that mixed up especially
in and that’s less about not nowadays
more especially in the early early
likelike you know the 60s and the 50s
and what in the hundred years before in
America that you know all that time was
just horrific and it was there was blood
drawn there was lines crossed and it was
never supposed to be the way that it
turned out but they these people who
thought that they were doing what was
right and I just and you can see that
that leads to some horrible things and
that’s why I think it’s bad I believe
and a separation between church and
state I don’t think that you know
privately funded things like school
should get any sort of federal
government money like unless it’s for
things that are applied to all the other
schools I think that it needs to be non
secular it needs to have the scrutiny of
being you know separated because there’s
a fine line like recently in to talk in
more recent news there was a talk of
there having an open casket honoring of
a reverend in the white house for the
first time and paul ryan talked about it
and donald trump talked about it saying
he was a respectful man and there are a
lot of people that don’t think so and
whether or not you believe that this man
was good or deserves the honoring it is
something to say of well should this
reverend be showcased in the capital and
be honored in a situation where we are a
nation filled of different religions and
I’m not saying that being a good person
while being a faith isn’t something that
is worth recognizing it’s just kind of a
fine line because the allegiances are
definitely there
like oh well this man was a great
Catholic man he did all these great
things and it’s really just kind of
contentious and so to wrap all that up I
just say in general it’s something to be
wary of but that’s why I turn it over to
my partner Dakota because I’d love for
him to maybe address some separate
points that might cover the cotton the
topic a little bit better so what I’m
hearing is you don’t think I just want
to clarify yes you don’t think we should
have any any religious entanglements
yeah entanglements between like the
government and religious and religion
yes because yes because you believe that
with religion comes the the bias of yes
the bias and I think and I’m glad I
think that words all of my crazy
different separate points on together
very well because that’s that’s where I
think the corruption comes especially
like when I was saying like with those
privately funded schools and the
privately you know all the the private
connections between the states and the
government’s especially like in in
England in the olden times when it was
the Roman Catholic Church and it’s
connected to the royalty I mean when you
had all that it made it so the
government played into the religion and
the religion played into the government
and that really isn’t shouldn’t be what
happens especially when you have a
nation full of different religions and
it seems that to be honest it’s like
picking favorites because it’s already
kind of a stretch to do in the pledge of
allegiance and say under God and you
know do put your right like some people
just don’t believe in that and I’m not
saying that you should abolish doing the
Pledge of Allegiance and I’m not saying
that you shouldn’t have you know the
country shouldn’t do any like oh under
God when he’s sworn in this president or
so help me God any of that it’s just
you’ve got to be wary of all the other
people because you don’t want to
associate the country with something
that’s gonna be very what’s the word
that’s gonna have some segregation and
their lack of a better word yeah because
you’re establishing that you’re not the
same as the other people you’re saying
all right if you say that
nation is Oh in God’s and god we trust’
it’s God’s country God’s favorite place
and all that like what about all the
Jewish in the Muslim and the Hindu and
all in the air whatever your religion is
in the country they’re not gonna feel as
close with them as connected as one as a
part of the nation and that’s why I
think it should just be our our country
independent of itself and of course I
see the value and I see what a lot of
people will say which is it encourages
good character encourages good morals
that’s so there’s nothing wrong with it
and that’s right but like I’m saying
people can a lot of humans make mistakes
and they can abuse the the good rules a
lot of the people that are bad in this
world of some of the most clever because
they know how to get around rules and I
mean all of those things I just told you
aspetta mean I cry every day thinking
about how sad it is like but so much
hatred has been spread throughout
hundreds and hundreds of years about
towards gay people towards people of
color it’s horrific because there’s
nothing that they had ever done it
deserved and my biggest thing to tell to
address people that don’t understand
people that are transgender if that’s
the way that they were wanted to be and
that’s truly what they want then that’s
what they should get because if you
really think about it and especially
where people say like oh it’s just a
mental disorder being gay and like oh or
or being transgender it’s just they’re
either wacko or whatever that’s well a
lot of people say and I’m address I’m
saying this now because it’s a problem
that people are saying that because it I
mean it’s just it’s horrific to think
about how these people are considered
less or considered not holy for being
gay or being transgender because God put
them on this earth for a reason that’s
the number one thing that people always
told me in the church was that all
people were born with the same morals
and the same ideals I mean come on all
men are created equal and yet look I
mean it’s just one of those things where
God who had never taught hatred and
a lot of God’s things that have been
done in God’s name throughout hundreds
of thousands of years have been in
hatred and I think that all that the
people in this world deserve is love and
I think that it’s just like I said just
very heartbreaking because I believe
that it really is God’s plan and and
that’s something that you and I have had
had a real big headbutt about before
which was whether or not its genetic or
whatever or not its mental or if it
really is what God wants because oh if
it’s said in the Bible that man is
between men and a woman man a woman then
why would a man love another man but you
look back and you think about well if
Hitler kill killed gay people and there
was gay people back then there is gay
people back in like Mozart’s age because
they write about it even now and you can
read about it that there’s a trend there
it’s not like this is some recent thing
of oh my god a guy loves another guy
girl loves another girl and it’s so
unanimous without any sort of
interaction it’s not like it was just
like this thing that just came out of
nowhere people have had it and I’ve had
and there’s so many people through all
the years that have shared their
experiences of hiding it and be feeling
ashamed and now that we’re in a world
that’s more connected than ever because
of social media because of all the great
connections that we can have in this
world now because of Technology people
have a community across the world they
don’t even have to have any friends that
are gay in their school or in their town
because they have people in California
when they’re in Michigan or whatever and
it’s great because now you can really
see just how many people are a part of
this I think that the LGBT community is
growing more and more every day not in
the sense of people becoming gay or
anything but in the sense of people
finally having that confidence to tell
people to identify as a member of the
LGBT community because back in the you
know the seventies people like Freddie
Mercury were getting married when they
were gay just so they could hold up the
facade that they weren’t I mean that’s
what happened and I don’t know I just
think that all these people they come
from a place of love and they come from
a place of sincerity and so when people
say I don’t like I’ve heard people talk
about in the transgender bathroom thing
oh it doesn’t belong in my bathroom with
my daughter because they think they’re
gonna rape somebody like they’re just
wait thinking this over their head do
you really think that someone would go
through that much effort to molest
somebody go under a sexual change of
their actual physical body I just think
that that’s perfectly Caribbean side
that people would assume that out of a
person that comes out publicly and says
that this is really what I believe I
believe I’m a woman when they’re a man
and I believe or the other way around
and it’s just heartbreaking
and I know I’ve been going on and on but
and I really want to know your side
because I kind of feel like I’m drilling
you down and I want to hear what you
have to say about it so a lot topic well
so in reality you’re saying like people
people hate people discriminate and that
kind of stuff and you’re saying that’s
not what God intended yeah right and you
are absolutely 100% correct there God
put people on the earth to like the
whole the whole reason why God made Eve
was that Adam would have someone to love
one right and that’s why that’s why we
have communities that’s why we’re able
to build relationships that’s why we’re
able to make friends even like that’s
why we’re here to to be a part of a
community that’s what we are as humans
we we are in community with each other
and you’re right God God doesn’t want
people to discriminate and God doesn’t
want people to hate each other so when
when whoever politicians or whoever when
they go hey we hate gay people like
that’s that’s I believe I firmly believe
that’s wrong now I’m not gonna endorse
gay marriage okay that’s just against my
beliefs but I’m not gonna judge other
people for going there it’s not my spot
to judge that’s the thing like then
you’re aware and that’s what i-i’ve
always seen in you is I know you’re
aware of the fact that it’s not your
place to judge somebody for that yeah
exactly but a lot of people and it might
not even be it probably isn’t
intentional but they automatically
assume that because they’re another
person in this world that they can think
that they’re less than them yeah I mean
just because of an orientation but can
you wanna know so yes God says that’s my
place to judge so when people go around
they go hating each other when they’re
protesting people’s funerals and stuff
that’s that’s wrong what they’re doing
is just as bad as anything else like
murder whatever rape all that kind of
stuff it’s all sin according to the
Bible it’s all sin so when you go around
you’re hating people it’s just as bad so
but then what do you think about them
doing that though and what do you think
that means in terms of establishing
connections between your religion and
politics are you connect a religion to
politics how would you defend someone
that that does so closely connect their
religious ties with their political ties
it’s not saying like I said yeah I am
saying it’s bad but I’m not trying to
attack you for having that feeling I
want to know what you think about it
well my thing is I’m not saying we
should you know unseparated the church
and say because I think I think it’s
good that we have separation between
church and state that way we can have a
system that doesn’t discriminate like
America like freedom of religion freedom
of speech if we only had one opinion I
do think that’d be hard to have a
society so I’m not I’m not saying we
have to like bring the church and the
government back together that’s not what
I’m saying what I’m saying is
I guess to answer your question like I
believe that when the when the church
and religion is I don’t like the word
religion and religion is religion
government yeah church and government I
think when they are together when they
come together I think it can be a great
thing only if people are actually doing
what God says because God doesn’t say
protest gay marriages protests military
funerals God doesn’t say to do any of
that God says love your neighbor as
yourself
and if your neighbors gay and you’re
like forget forget even like forget
discriminating right let’s just say you
just don’t like your neighbor because of
that fact like that that’s a the exact
opposite of what God says to do so wait
what your what you’re feeling and what
your addressing is legalism and we’ve
talked a little bit about this before
but when people when people decide the
rules are more important than the people
that’s when there’s problems that’s when
like that’s when all the hate comes out
cuz people go this rule is far more
important than any other person and
that’s where that’s that’s where the
line gets and that’s and that’s
something that I think comes with a lot
of conservativism is people just blindly
following those ideals or what I like to
call from mister Bloomquist selective
incorporation in the different means
because they’re selectively
incorporating the rules that they’re
blindly following so I mean if you look
at because a lot of religion is very
broad and a lot of the government issues
are very specific like I don’t know
immigrants coming into the country or
economy or healthcare it’s something
that’s specifically addressed but when
people are like are but people they make
they assume what’s God’s intention you
know what I mean and yeah to be honest
with you like I can make a lot of real
you could any person can twist it to be
God’s will no matter what I mean think
about like the pro-choice versus
pro-life like that’s a whole like
conversation of like well you could
argue that like God wants the baby to
stay obviously but you could also say oh
well if
could make it so people could discover
how to remove babies from the body then
they could do it like that’s I’m just
I’m not saying that that’s like an
argument that I’m making what I’m saying
is that people do try to do that people
are deliberately drawing like we’ve the
way that God’s will is into these
specific things yeah you know what I’m
saying and with that it’s just you need
to be cognizant I think that it’s good
to have good morals but I think that you
shouldn’t blindly follow it the thing I
want you to talk at the very at the very
beginning you talked about like the Book
of Leviticus yes you said there’s all
these rules that God clearly set forth
saying like don’t eat pork don’t get a
tattoo wear a golden or golden wedding
ring oh now all that was great but that
is a curse oh so what what you don’t
realize is that was this is just a
little historical context yes that was
Abrahamic law that was for the
Israelites specifically when it comes to
following because back then they didn’t
know things about like she what’s the
word bacteria right yeah so God said
when you go to the bathroom you go
outside a camp you dig a hole you poo in
the hole you cover it up and then you
come back in cuz back then they didn’t
know you know like that you can just set
you can’t sleep in your own yeah exactly
exactly they didn’t know that kind of
stuff so a lot of those kind of rules
are set in a time in a different time
than it’s set in a different time and
they’re sets for people that don’t
understand now I’m not saying like look
they’re set for our good right yeah that
being said
like a lot of the sacrifices they had to
make like one of the specific rules are
sacrificing you don’t see people running
around sacrificing animals here yeah
that’s because when Jesus came and this
is part of the religion thing is
religion yes yes yes I’ll talk about
that later when the thing is when Jesus
came he was the sacrifice and he changed
through he didn’t change the rules he
fulfilled the law because Jesus says the
law is not as important as you so when
Jesus came he said I’ll be the sacrifice
ow
I will become the law so that you can
operate your own free will
yes exactly so that you can live your
own life your own life in me because
before Jesus they had to sacrifice sheep
they had the sacrifice that there was so
many sacrifices it was ridiculous so is
the point that you’re making that God
Jesus came along and said you don’t have
to do that anymore because I’m telling
you that you don’t have to right
I’m not saying some of them yeah I’m not
debunking what you’re saying yeah I’m
just drafting because and another thing
that you said was which i think is a
very very big thing that is an
eye-opener to everybody the book was
written a long time ago in a different
time yeah and so when the man has been
lovage between a man and a woman thing
things change and like that’s whatever
the first the number one like most
rudimentary thing when it comes to this
sort of argument is like yeah that exact
thing and like I told you God may have
it might have been a misinterpretation
of God’s will because I truly truly
believe that even back then God wouldn’t
have said oh man is beloved is between
just man and a woman because he wouldn’t
have made it possible for a man to love
another man or a woman
another one hmm and see okay good okay
let’s go go this is where this is where
we go yes the polite discourse starts so
Jesus Jesus actually never said he said
I want to reiterate that Jesus said that
yeah yeah yeah disciple yes yes so well
when I was talking about Jesus becoming
the new law mm-hmm
that had nothing to do with marriage
well actually did he said when you
become part of the church you become my
bride which is interesting the church is
basically his bride answer step that’s a
weird that’s interesting that’s a weird
topic keep going
no but so I’m not I’m not saying every
single law in the Old Testament cuz
obviously putting your poop somewhere
else
that’s a good that’s a good rule to live
by and the thing is the thing is with
you’re defending picking and choosing
the rules in the Bible aren’t you know
that’s what it sounds that’s what it
sounds like I’ll admit that’s definitely
what it sounds like but the thing is
Jesus he didn’t pick and choose he
became the law and he he specifically
said like he said to Peter after after
he had died and came back and went went
back into heaven he said to Peter hey
like in a vision Peter saw all these
animals he saw it lizards he saw pigs he
saw a bunch of weird animals and he said
and God said then eat and Peter’s like
uh-uh that foods unholy and gods like no
eat and Peter’s like no no no God you
said that was unholy and gods like no no
no no I said that’s hope that eat it
cuz through Jesus that’s fine and I
guess the moral of the story is I’m not
I’m not saying everything that you do
it’s okay you don’t have to worry about
already a very specific way just exactly
what you feel just saying I’m not saying
everything is justified in fact
that sin is still sin no matter what you
do God sees every sin the exact same way
God sees murder as mert as a sin he sees
a white liason he sees everything the
exact same way and I believe that I
don’t want to say homosexuality I want
to say he clearly says marriage is
between a man and a woman yes obviously
biologically scientifically speaking
there’s a man part and there’s a woman
part yes and they go together yeah I am
very familiar with that yes so
scientifically speaking that’s the way
it is and when you go in just I I don’t
want to go there I’m on do it say it the
thing is like when you when you try to
subvert those rules you introduce things
that were not designed to be that way in
the same way there you go yeah you just
hit the homerun that that’s that’s a
that’s an online I’m not the thing is
come on I’m not I’m not hating on
anybody I love gay people I truly love
transgender people I truly love the
LGBTQ community but I personally don’t
believe that that’s a good thing a good
thing huh there’s not much that’s not my
spot to judge though but but but I don’t
end of the day you know that I’m glad
because this is revealing some truth at
the end of the day you still don’t feel
like it’s something you agree yes and
it’s and that is we’re not in you but in
other kind you’re ever gonna happen in
you yeah and other people that are not
as kind and caring as you that’s where
the hatred is bro yeah that’s where it
comes from is being like oh well I still
don’t understand you still don’t like I
still to whatever but like this those
people that say oh well and I for you
hear it a lot in like the videos of
people coming out as trans
and whatever they say I don’t understand
it but I love you so I’m gonna I’m gonna
do I’m gonna love you unconditionally
and I’m going to support you 100%
yeah and that’s the that is what God
intended and that’s what God like when
you say that the changing the rules and
understanding new things is with love
and acceptance it’s not with insecurity
and fear exactly I’m glad you could say
that because you know this is something
I’ve been thinking about cuz I hate sin
Oh boys crying it’s like a I hate sin
but I love people and what God says is
he says love people that’s what you do
you love people your job on this earth
is to love people and let me love people
and show them my love that’s what God
says to do show them my love God doesn’t
say hey go condemn everyone to hell
because first of all you can’t do that
yeah
second of all it’s not your job to do
that yeah third of all it just makes you
look like a jerk and it paints everyone
in a bad picture yeah so like I
personally I don’t I I don’t condone gay
marriage or and that kind of thing but I
still have plenty of friends that are
like that and I’m I love them as people
and I’m not gonna go around judging them
I’m not gonna try to you know like try
to convert their treatment lengths or
anything to treat them like let dirt
through my friends yeah they’re they’re
people that God placed in my life for me
to love yeah so it is a different kind
of it’s not like sexual love but it’s
like a love like a undergone love and
understanding so well to wrap up this
conversation just cuz it’s in it is we
did say that we were starting off on a
broad topic of religion I wanted to to
say a point that I think is big because
I kind of made a point about it being
like oh how is how do we really know
that the button that religion is real
and God is real and I’ve said this
before to people and I and I want to
have it on tape so I can actually like
have it somewhere and I can refer to it
in the future the way that I know
without a shadow of a doubt
God is real yeah the end of the day even
though I’ve told you so much about how
absolutely convinced that there’s
something up with religion and all that
I’m still at the end of the day gonna
pray every single night like I’ve done
since I was a little kid I’m going to
believe because there is no way that in
a world with no technology and no
universal connection with hundreds and
thousands of different languages in
people of different races ethnicities
and geological locations there is no way
that all those different religions that
came out of them that are still around
today could have that much similarity in
their origin and basic premise if there
wasn’t an actual God like the fact that
there’s Allah and the fact that there’s
God linking Muslim and if it’s just so
funny that they’re both so contentious
with each other those two religions but
the ideas are there Allah and God I mean
ideally are supposed to be the similar
ideas it’s a single manifestation of
someone that came down and said I’m the
savior and all that it’s just different
you know different people different
names different times different places
different languages different
interpretations and that’s what makes it
all one big thing and it’s also at the
same time hard to be able to compare
religion as fact versus fantasy or /
story I shouldn’t say fantasy Vic like
story because it’s an interpretation of
another human beings experiences not
actually God’s written action of
printing these words so that’s my way of
my skepticism and my optimism and
diligent combined because but at the end
of the day I would say that there is no
doubt in my mind that there isn’t some
sort of God but I’m also a man of
science the Big Bang all the scientific
I mean there’s a lot of questions yeah
so but that’s not what we were here to
talk about today that wasn’t where we
disagree that’s a topic for another
that’s a topic for another time I just
wanted to say that at the end of the day
I still love you for who you are Dakota
and I appreciate that
I want you to know everyone listening
that nothing that we talked about in
this podcast will ever affect the way
that we feel about each other as friends
and we hope that we have the same with
you we know I want you to know that
these are just the way that this thought
processes this is just a conversation
we’re just spitballing we’re not
we’re not we don’t have an agenda we’re
not establishing ways to think we’re not
trying to tell you what to think we’re
just trying to teach you how to think
you know we just want to say that we’re
very thankful and we hope to see you
next time on polite political discourse
adios
Owen Horne ◊ Mar 26, 2018 at 12:03 pm
thanks
Joey Babcock ◊ Mar 26, 2018 at 12:17 pm
yw